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Old 01-25-2016, 11:08 AM
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[RE-WATCH] 3x12: "THE VEHM" Episode Discussion Thread (01/28/16 @ 9PM)

3x12 | The Vehm
E P I S O D E DISCUSSION T H R E A D



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episode synopsis
After an associate of Red’s is murdered by a rare medieval device, he alerts the task force that a vigilante group from the Middle Ages known as The Holy Vehm has been resurrected and is lethal. Red teams up with Liz and the task force to stop the assassins before any more of the targets are killed. Meanwhile, upon receiving shocking news, Liz carefully considers her next move.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:58 AM
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Happy Blacklist Thursday everybody! Enjoy the episode tonight!

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Old 01-28-2016, 11:45 AM
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Tonight, I can't believe it's Thursday again already!

Thanks for the art, Miranda I love that NBC seems to be promoting it a bit more lately, at least the new episodes airing.

I'll watch it first thing in the morning tomorrow.
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:13 PM
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I have to work tomorrow so I will watch it tomorrow night after work.

I really love that NBC is promoting their show more by giving out those arts.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:47 PM
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Hm, I just saw the episode and I'm really scared on where this is all going. I don't even know where to start...

Samar, damn it, what is wrong with her? Why is she acting this way... First of all being a bit** again, then being told by Cooper that Ressler recommended on having her back, her thanking him, him confessing that he didn't do it and that he thinks she shouldn't be back and her telling him that he sucked in bed?! Seriously? The women in this show... It's so sad.

Ressler didn't have a big part in the episode.

The pregnancy... Man, her really thinking about adoption in the first place? Even in the beginning? This pro/con list made me laugh so hard! Oh man, I have no words anymore. Red being a con and Tom a pro? Tom who isn't really Tom at all. Oh yes, let it come. It's just hilarious to me, nothing more.

Her not telling Tom and him finding out... I really can't believe that a woman who doesn't know if to tell the father of the child would be so stupid to leave the list there with him to find. It was just stupid. And on a side not, Hudson being back?! Where did he come from? Wow, if that would happen to the baby I wouldn't be surprised. It going amiss for months and then out of the blue being back and being of a different gender (like the doc was a different race back in season 1 and so on ). Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Tom and his 'We need to leave' is sooooo extremely annoying. We're really back to season 2 and I just keep sitting in front of my laptop and yawning and asking myself when we got back to the past? When were we time traveling? Anybody? He hasn't changed a bit and he is back to that annoying character for me again. I really had hope in 3x09 and 3x10 for him and here we are again. I'm simply more bored with every episode we get.

Red, what the hell is going on with him? I could have killed him when he was in Liz office and told her that a child was a bad idea. WTH?! Boah, what was he thinking? He had a child himself and he is going to her and tell her it doesn't fit his time line? Wow, that was really low and annoying.
On a side note, I knew he knew... Nice to hear that Liz knew as well but was blocking it because she wasn't able to deal with it. Makes her just a tiny little bit less stupid.

The final scene between Liz and Red felt awkward to me, too. I'm glad that he told her that his reaction in her office was not okay, it definitely wasn't but I hate how he made that neighbor of her leave, place surveillance there and brought her a couch, made that massage appointment. I hate it how he thinks he can dictate her how to live her life. He's right now destroying everything that was built. It should come from her... Not him because what he is doing now is even annoying me (and me saying that as one of the biggest Red/Liz fans will mean something) and I can see why she is trying to keep her distance.

I was so sad to see that she considered to give up her child for adoption in the end. She was such a child as well and yes, she was lucky to have Sam. But she still has problems with dealing with the fact that she doesn't know who her parents are... I don't get how she can consider that.

Aram was sooo cute. Oh man, the only normal guy really seems to be Aram!

Red killing that person that attacked Liz was great! I loved him therefore... But that was kind of a overreaction, one that we were certain we would get though.

The blacklister, no words... It was just lame IMO. And why did the daughter of that clown guy say that he abused a 12 year old boy? That was the associate of Red's and he said he didn't do it? I wish we would have gotten answer to that.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:01 AM
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I didn't find this episode very interesting bth. Weird blacklister and strange cases.

Red knowing that Liz was pregnant before she really did know! Of course he did. that man knows everything!

Liz considering adoption. I didn't think she would consider it but I think it wouldn't be such a bad idea. Like she said; in what world would she be bringing in her child? It's not like she has everything going for her. Even if Red wouldn't be in her life, she is still rebuilding her life and a child doesn't fit into that right now. I did hate how Red told her the child would be an inconvenience but I am glad he apologized for that afterwards but I think that made her consider adoption as well.

I thought it was so stupid that Red got Liz's neighbour a bigger place so he could put Baz in the apartment so she has surveillance around the clock. Why? Is it because Liz was attacked or also for Tom? It's such an invasion of Liz's privacy.

I loved how Red took care of Liz's attacker. At first I didn't know who he was talking too but then the showed his face and I knew that it was Liz's attacker.

Hudson is back! He is still alive! I wonder where that dog has been all this time!

The tension between Ressler and Samar is there! Her telling him that he sucked in bed! for some reason I don't believe that is true.

Cooper and Aram. So we know now that Cooper left Charlene and he is looking for his own place. I would have liked to see how Cooper and Aram would have interacted in his office. To bad they didn't show that.

Aram and Samar! I am so glad they had a conversation and that all is well again! I am so happy about that. That was one of the best things about the episode for me.
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:34 AM
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Kris, I just wanted to say that you said everything I had to say about this episode. I finally watched it and yeah... I should have stuck to my decision to stop watching.
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alt.er (View Post)
Kris, I just wanted to say that you said everything I had to say about this episode. I finally watched it and yeah... I should have stuck to my decision to stop watching.
Hey Sarah I'm so sorry to hear that you feel the same way I feel about the episode. It's getting worse, really. The only good thing in the show for me that was left was Red. What he is doing right now destroyed even that... I'm at a loss here. I don't understand this crap, that we have now to face.
And I'm still sad to hear that you won't watch anymore. Maybe you get the chance or the motivation to watch the episodes still. Maybe it's getting better at some point but I feel that we always hoped for that to happen and then we were let down again and it's only getting worse and worse.

Quote:
I thought it was so stupid that Red got Liz's neighbour a bigger place so he could put Baz in the apartment so she has surveillance around the clock. Why? Is it because Liz was attacked or also for Tom? It's such an invasion of Liz's privacy.
About Red's actions, I think he's somehow blended by the thought of losing her... His actions are not rational, they don't make any sense to me at all anymore. I'm afraid of him and that did never happen before.

Don't even get me started with Hudson... I have no words for him being back either. He should have just stayed away. I'm not interested in that dog anymore and every time they bring him back is more hilarious.

Quote:
Cooper and Aram. So we know now that Cooper left Charlene and he is looking for his own place. I would have liked to see how Cooper and Aram would have interacted in his office. To bad they didn't show that.
The Cooper and Aram bonding indeed was great I loved that scene so much and again I didn't expect we would get something like that. It definitely was one of the best moments for me in this episode.

Quote:
Aram and Samar! I am so glad they had a conversation and that all is well again! I am so happy about that. That was one of the best things about the episode for me.
Is it bad they I never want them to be a couple at all. Aram deserves somebody else, not her... Her behavior so annoyed me and he would be better of without her. Friends they can be, but nothing more. It would destroy Aram IMO.
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:16 PM
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Tom going back to "annoying Dorky Teacher" mode was kinda irritating. Pick a personality and stick with it.

Lizzie putting Tom on the PRO list.... o_O? Ummmm..... since when? The man in a liar, a killer, and someone who had spent a couple of years being someone he wasn't because he was being paid.

Red is trying to put up walls around Lizzie and she;s letting him. Ugh.... What is wrong with you woman. Red should have left the neighbor alone and picked another apartment on the floor to keep and eye on Liz.


This episode was a mess...... a BIG MESS.
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Old 01-31-2016, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post)


Is it bad they I never want them to be a couple at all. Aram deserves somebody else, not her... Her behavior so annoyed me and he would be better of without her. Friends they can be, but nothing more. It would destroy Aram IMO.
No that is not bad. At this moment, the way Samar is acting I don't want them to be together either but I am just glad that they are friends again.

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Originally Posted by ChakotaysLover (View Post)
Tom going back to "annoying Dorky Teacher" mode was kinda irritating. Pick a personality and stick with it.

Lizzie putting Tom on the PRO list.... o_O? Ummmm..... since when? The man in a liar, a killer, and someone who had spent a couple of years being someone he wasn't because he was being paid.
I totally agree. I can't see Tom going back to a teacher again. And I don't understand why Liz put Tom on the pro list, even with the questions marks. Woman, that guy totally ruined your life and now you are actually considering to get back with him.. WHY?
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Tom going back to "annoying Dorky Teacher" mode was kinda irritating. Pick a personality and stick with it.
That's what's bothering me as well... He seems to be a different person in almost every single episode. I really hope he'll stick with a personality (man, it's so hard to say that because nobody should stick with a personality but be himself) for good. With him you never know what to expect.

Quote:
Lizzie putting Tom on the PRO list.... o_O? Ummmm..... since when? The man in a liar, a killer, and someone who had spent a couple of years being someone he wasn't because he was being paid.
At least she put question marks behind his name. That's something. She wasn't sure weather to put him there or not. Which at least a little bit speaks for her senses still being intact. He is the father of the child, considering him being a pro maybe makes sense I won't blame her for that.

Quote:
Red is trying to put up walls around Lizzie and she;s letting him. Ugh.... What is wrong with you woman. Red should have left the neighbor alone and picked another apartment on the floor to keep and eye on Liz.
Tari, you think she's letting him? I'm really curious to see if that's true or if at some point she'll stand her ground and make him step back. It's about time because that was way too much! He doesn't own her, she's her own person... That's something he needs to accept. And shall he continue that way I'm sure he'll lose her for good.

Quote:
This episode was a mess...... a BIG MESS.
ITA!

Quote:
No that is not bad. At this moment, the way Samar is acting I don't want them to be together either but I am just glad that they are friends again.
I'm happy I'm not the only one seeing it that way So why do you think he got her back into the task force?
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Old 01-31-2016, 01:18 PM
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Lauren, the clown was not Red's friend. Red's friend was killed using a medieval torture so he believed the murders were by the same people. That is why he tasked the FBI to search for other murders using a similar MO. When Lizzy surmised those killed were pedophiles Red knew that was not always the case because his friend was many things, but he was not a pedophile. It then came to light that numerous individuals being wiped out were in the business of money laundering.

I too, thought this was a strange episode. I have to say I appreciated it more on a second viewing than during my initial one.

Tom returning to "school teacher" Tom mode should make Lizzy want to run screaming from him. Yes, it does take her back to happier times, but this is not who Tom is. This is a character he is playing...this is someone he can turn off at a moment's notice. To live with Tom would constantly be living in a land of let's pretend. The difference this time around is that Lizzy knows it's a make-believe world in which she is living.

In Red's case I think the stress of everything is finally starting to crack his armor. He is becoming overly protective because he did not protect Lizzy from the random act of violence that befell her, and he's not going to let that happen again. The problem is that he not only is now protecting her from afar, but trying to control her every movement. He is scared of losing her...the only problem is he is smothering her and pushing her away. I'm concerned about his mental state, and I think Dembe and Mr. Kaplan are as well.

I must say I laughed out loud when Samar told Ressler he sucked in bed. He was being forward and telling Samar exactly how he felt...well she shared exactly what she thought about him. I have to say she didn't look blissful in bed at his apartment. I think the whole experience was one she would rather have forgotten from the moment it was over.

Aram and Cooper were both tried and true to form in this episode...just good people trying to do what is right.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:25 PM
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Meeeeeeeeeeeeh.

Lower your expectation and it will be good. Don't think of it as some uber-great crime drama, just think of it as a good fun show where you can relax 42 minutes.

If it wasn't for James Spader, this would be an average show at best.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:07 PM
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I actually really enjoyed this episode. So many parallels to Season 1 - clearly purposeful. Tom is trying to recreate the fantasy of their Season 1 lives. The reappearance of Hudson. The schoolteacher job in Boston.

But Liz - Liz is writing his name in question marks. She knows he's not really Tom. But she still calls him Tom. She's weighing her options. She's starting to get a clue about what's going on in her life.

Reddington is going all over-protective on her. Look how well that worked the last time? Poor (Evan?) was that his name? From the motel. The guy she had arrested for stalking her. He's starting to smother her again. That won't end well.

And yes - Ressler was sidelined a bit again. But a few key moments. He always wanted Reddington to talk to him instead of Keen. Now Reddington is - he's briefing the group. And what is Ressler worried about? Where's Liz? Is she ok? She can't be ok if Red is here without her.

Samar and Ressler? I laughed. A LOT. It shows the hookup meant nothing to EITHER of them. The rest is words. I have a feeling at some point we will see Ressler in a REAL situation with someone he loves and it will show a different perspective.

And no, I'm still not convinced Tom is the father. One "we're expecting" in the context of an entire episode of evasion - of Liz not confirming the assumption to Red of all people? I think there's a potential plot there (not certain, but potential).
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:56 AM
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Lauren, the clown was not Red's friend. Red's friend was killed using a medieval torture so he believed the murders were by the same people. That is why he tasked the FBI to search for other murders using a similar MO. When Lizzy surmised those killed were pedophiles Red knew that was not always the case because his friend was many things, but he was not a pedophile. It then came to light that numerous individuals being wiped out were in the business of money laundering.
And how did I miss that? Oh wow, that's bad, really... Of me. I guess I was just so pissed by the episode already that I missed that piece of information. I really always thought it was the clown Thanks for the clarification though

Good to hear that some of us appreciated it more on the second viewing then the first. That gives me hope!

Quote:
Tom returning to "school teacher" Tom mode should make Lizzy want to run screaming from him. Yes, it does take her back to happier times, but this is not who Tom is. This is a character he is playing...this is someone he can turn off at a moment's notice. To live with Tom would constantly be living in a land of let's pretend. The difference this time around is that Lizzy knows it's a make-believe world in which she is living.
I totally agree She would be living a lie tbh... Why go with the name Tom Keen? Him going by that name means that the Major for example will always be able to find him. I don't get that He's endangering her and their baby.

Quote:
In Red's case I think the stress of everything is finally starting to crack his armor. He is becoming overly protective because he did not protect Lizzy from the random act of violence that befell her, and he's not going to let that happen again. The problem is that he not only is now protecting her from afar, but trying to control her every movement. He is scared of losing her...the only problem is he is smothering her and pushing her away. I'm concerned about his mental state, and I think Dembe and Mr. Kaplan are as well.
Yes, that's true I started to see it as well and him not being able to protect her from something like a guy on a parking lot for sure got to him. I felt so sorry that he wasn't able to prevent that, I'm wondering if Lizzie knows how much he is suffering because of his 'failure'.
And I'm wondering if she's seeing what's going on with him. She's a profiler after all, she should notice it... I somehow wish that with Red she would at least once be profiling him right and realize what's going on before blaming him for everything...

Quote:
Lower your expectation and it will be good. Don't think of it as some uber-great crime drama, just think of it as a good fun show where you can relax 42 minutes.
I think I've reached that point already And still I'm totally pissed... What am I doing wrong here?

Quote:
I actually really enjoyed this episode. So many parallels to Season 1 - clearly purposeful. Tom is trying to recreate the fantasy of their Season 1 lives. The reappearance of Hudson. The schoolteacher job in Boston.
Okay, at least somebody else who liked it. There aren't many people out there though that did, it's so sad. I'm one of those really negative ones lately and it's somehow not getting better.

Quote:
And no, I'm still not convinced Tom is the father. One "we're expecting" in the context of an entire episode of evasion - of Liz not confirming the assumption to Red of all people? I think there's a potential plot there (not certain, but potential).
I really hope you're wrong because make Ressler the father and I'm gone from the show and the board I think... That would be a nightmare for me (and consider that saying a person who hates nothing more on the show than Tom and Liz). But therefore ruining Ressler and Liz and come up with even more crap, no. Not happening with me.
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